Now that the United States of America has elected her first Marxist president, it is time to start hoping.
Let’s hope that Barack Obama’s love of self is greater than his love of radical ideology. It took a lot for him to get where he is. Is he wise enough to throw the far left radicals who helped elect him under the bus?
Let’s hope the 1st Amendment survives this administration. Let’s hope that the Civilian National Security Force doesn’t target those of us who disagree with our new Dear Leader.
If he and the Congress do plunge us into a deep recession, or worse yet a depression, let’s hope the American people will have the wisdom to place the blame where it belongs. Let’s hope the American people won’t be willing to give up their liberty and freedom for false promises of economic security.
Let’s hope that Joe Biden was lying when he said Dear Leader will be tested and will fail that test.
Let’s hope that those of us who don’t want to be wards of the state will teach our children that with freedom comes responsibility. We are just as free to fail as we are to succeed. When we make mistakes we pay for those mistakes and we learn from them.
Let’s hope that the Republicans that survived the slaughter will grow themselves some spines and start standing up for us. They must raise their voices and do whatever they can to put the reigns on Obama, Pelosi and Reid.
And finally, let’s hope that those of you who voted for hope are not too terribly disappointed when your hopes are once again dashed.
The Republicans in Congress must find the microphones and use them. Their reluctance to do so is why we are where we are tonight.
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Ironically, or perhaps justly, if the economy tanks because Obama raises taxes, discourages investment, and sends out non-productive welfare checks, it will be his (1) young; (2) black; (3) hispanic; and (4) academic pinhead supporters who will be standing in the unemployment lines.
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Who is John Galt?
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“…let’s hope that those of you who voted for hope are not too terribly disappointed when your hopes are once again dashed.”
I do not share your kindness. Let those who voted for hope experience right up front and personally, every result that an Obama presidency will bring. They voted for those results; let them experience those results.
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Denise-Mary, sadly, we will all suffer for their vote. You and I won’t be surprised, we will be prepared. I’m not feeling kind.
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L.C. yes, I know. We will all indeed experience the results. Forgive me for being snarky on your web site (upside-down smile here…) As a single woman, helping her son and daughter-in-law through graduate/undergraduate schools, respectively, all I can ponder at the moment is my precious 401(k) being nationalized. I had planned to use those funds to help them buy their first home in six years or so. Can’t do that if the Feds get their hands on my carefully-saved funds, now can I? I don’t own a gun and I don’t cling to religion, but I’m one bitter woman tonight. I also know that I can’t “tune out” or go underground for the next four years, much as I would like to, because there will be other battles to wage (like electing senators).
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VERY IMPORTANT _THIS MAY BE THE CRISIS BIDEN IS REFERRING TO: Watch the video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1954933468700958565&hl=es<http:/
and read the story:
http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=16868
and here;
http://halturnershow.blogspot.com/2008_10_19_archive.html
and spread the word to THE WHOLE BLOGGING COMMUNITY AND EVERYWHERE ELSE
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AND HERE
http://au.truveo.com/Stephen-Previs-mentions-amero-on-CNBC-November/id/3045679482
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Explain how he is a Marxist. You show a desperate lack of intelligence with such statements. If Obama is a Marxist, then McCain is a Fascist – no less ridiculous, but if talking on your level, just as plausible.
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And let’s hope that The Lonely Conservative will one day learn the difference between _reins_ and _reigns_. I’m sure that Mr. Galt (and Ms. Rand) knew the difference.
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Obama!
Well be careful as you have been handed over a mess which will require years to clean.
indebted, unnessary wars, bad face in the world around and job losses in plenty on the home front not to forget the foreclosure mess.
Today you defeated those who are and where interested in polarizing this great nation you literally sent a message across to them saying ENOUGH!
Now the people who have understood and voted should be shepherded from the ills of so called conservationism, hate for fellow americans, questioning the patriotism of fellow Americans.
Your message was clear about blue and red states now we need to blend all of this into one color and not allow these elements to repaint and break this new nation which has taken birth. Tell them either you are with US of A or you are red, green and blue or whatever color you want to paint yourself with.
The people are nice the Roves, the hannity’s and all of these elements need to be packed and quarantined for this nation to come together.
You demonstrated this time that all of this smear days, mud slinging days are past and the electorate is matured enough to see what is under the hood of Bush’s and Palin’s.
McCain is a gentleman his advisors unfortunately where the same breed which as time goes by will be detested and asked to come to terms with the change or get lost.
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The brightside is that the GOP faithful got to masturbate to their fantasy of some abstract “respect for human life” for yet one more election cycle. You should all take great satisfaction that you stood on principle, all practical considerations be damned.
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Vijay,
All hail the Maximum Leader! Regarding those who disagree, as you put it, “these elements need to be packed and quarantined”. Concentration camps, already? That didn’t take long.
By the end of the One’s 1st term, expect:
1. Double digit inflation;
2. Double digit unemployment;
3. Major jihadist attack on American soil;
4. Loss to the jihadists of any or all of Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan.
Our only hope is that the One will be more interested in being in the Oval Office than in using it to, as he put it “fundamentally transform America”.
May God have mercy on the United States.
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As a British Conservative I am terribly sad about your results. However –
1) “The people get the Government they deserve” and as one commentator above has said it will the Dear Leader’s supporters who suffer first from the Dear Leader’s policies
2) Young men with beaming smiles, pushy wives, fradulent prospectuses and elected with the total support of a fawning media are not totally new phenomena. In 1997 British voters – even more so than those in the US in 2008 – made the mistake of falling for an empty shell of a con-man believing him to be the Messiah. It took us ten painful years but in the end he was exposed. I doubt that Obama will take that long to expose.
We have just about lost our liberty here after 11 years of misgovernment by those of Obama’s ilk. Fortunately you have a lot more protection than we have in your Constitution (though your media will try hard to strangle that protection on various grounds) and The Great Obama hasn’t, it seems, quite got the majority in the Senate he needs to legally stifle your liberty. (However, there was one charismatic leader in the 1930s with a name something like Altdorf Hilter – who came into power with speeches sounding frighteningly like Vijay’s “we are all one” rant above. Any of Obama’s supporters doubt this, look up “Gleichschaltung”)
Good luck – no, more importantly – God bless you all, keep the faith, and for the sake of the world work to make sure this horrible mistake is repaired in 2012.
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The antichrist hath commeth.
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My fear is that whatever policies put into place will haunt us for far longer than this next administration. We are still suffering the Carter legacy. In fact, Obama should thank Carter for the CRA and the debacle that it wrought just before this election. He should also thank Chuck Schumer for causing the run on IndyMac, beginning the credit crisis that has brought us to this point.
Sadly, I feel that by 2012, we will have card check in place, significantly higher taxes, and a weaker foreign policy. Our military will be smaller and more poorly funded. We will be pumping billions into the green energy sector rather than using our own energy reserves, such as oil, gas, coal, and nuclear. The fairness doctrine will squelch opposing views.
Even more sadly, last night I finally realized how many morons live in this country and that the majority of them voted yesterday. To base your vote on your dislike of an outgoing president and a charismatic speaker without understanding the ramifications of his policies is truly insane. The very basis of this country, the Constitution, will be attacked by this administration. Opposition to this administration will be silenced, the 2nd amendment will be marginalized, and forget due process.
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Glad to see this sort of stuff; the Grand Ole Party does seem up for bitter, introspective blood letting over next few years.
Particularly enjoyed the comment imploring all to come and get jobs in China/Mexico etc.
As for the possibility of Palin in 2012..:-)
Good to see America grow up.
Taken a while.
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This is the fourth conservative whine-blog I have looked at today and I feel I have to comment at some point.
As a continental European liberal (since you in the US use “liberal” meaning left wing social democrat just substitute libertarian – fits well enough) I am constantly amazed about the amount of ideological blindness the US commentators regularly exhibit. You really have no idea what you are talking about when you say “Obama promotes socialism”. Scandivanian countries – in my opinion the most advanced democracies in the world (no, I am not Scandinavian. And sorry to disappoint you – US ideas of democracy are 200+ years old, and do have potential for reform) – may in the 80s have looked socialist, but they managed to have a functioning market economy AND a functioning welfare state – and all of that under conservative governments. None of what Obama proposes is any more socialist than Scandinavia, or Germany, or France, for that matter – and doom has not befallen any of those countries…
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(oops, the blog software cut off the rest – here it is:)
What also constantly amazes me is how little concept of what “free market economy” actually means so many US conservatives have. Free market does not mean an unregulated market, or a market without rules. A safety net for the poor is not contrary to free markets – it is necessary for the functioning of a free market society. (Read F.A.v. Hayek’s “The constitution of liberty” if you don’t believe me – he was one of the sharpest free market thinkers with no suspicion of being “socialist”)
Yes, the market works and price does regulate the market – but only if externalities are included in the price. Bubbles can only happen if markets are not efficient, same as crashes. The US markets clearly were not efficient…
I don’t delude myself that Obama will make European life a lot easier than Bush – he is American president, not European. But your electing Obama has actually brought optimism to the markets – Asian stock markets this morning were picking up. For the first time in years business people globally actually believe that the US is capable of reform. Being pragmatic and principled at the same time is possible – and Obama seems capable of it, AND he is young enough to not have the ideological baggage that you commentators have…
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Face it. McCain lost because there is enough of a disgust with the war in Iraq, even among Christian Conservatives like myself. The war was started under false pretenses using bogus intelligence from a few foes of Saddam. No WMDs, and even if there were, they were not a threat to us. Saddam was a SECULAR leader and he actively SUPPRESSED Muslum terrorists since they were a threat to his power. Yes, Saddam targeted and killed his political enemies, but can it compare to the HALF MILLION Iraqis that have died due to our occupation? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_conflict_in_Iraq_since_2003
I am pro life. That means I am pro ALL LIFE. What really upsets me about all this is that many feel the REAL reason we went to war was that Iraq stopped accepting US currency for their oil. See http://www.newswithviews.com/public_comm/public_commentary31.htm and http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_carlos_t_071119_opec_and_iraq_2firan.htm
The idea that a half million lives were lost due to financial considerations, or at minimum poor intelligence coupled with some other bizarre motive (finishing what daddy could not) is an abomination to me. As such, I could not, would not support McCain OR Palin OR any other republican candidate supporting this war.
Republicans as fiscal conservatives? What a lie! They outspent Democrats during the latter years of the Clinton presidency – Read “Breach of Trust” by Republican Tom Coburn to have your eyes opened on that issue! And blowing up nearly a trillion dollars on this Iraq fiasco is not what I would call fiscally conservative either! Again, it comes back to Iraq. And hypocrisy.
I voted Chuck Baldwin by the way.
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It’s very sad that so many of you, are so closed-minded.
Yet, you all profess to be *Patriotic.* Yeah, right.
Still with the venom, and Marxist crap.
Very sad, that so many were blessed by God, with eyes, ears, & brains… yet, refuse to use them.
The Reality-based community elected a Reality-based President, last night.
I suggest you actually listen to President-Elect Obama’s speech, last night.
One Nation, under God, INDIVISIBLE, with Liberty, and Justice for ALL… get it?
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Let’s not kid ourselves: President Bush governed in an honorable manner and kept his promise to keep us safe. I did not agree with all his policies BUT,
What idiot ever thought that throwing your president under the bus was a sure way to hide that you were a Republican?
Instead, the spineless republicans should have defended this president and highlighted his successes and attempts at bipartisanship.
What was McCain thinking when the first thing he said at the outset of the economic meltdown was to blame the administration? Only after he knew he had lost did he start assigning blame to the democrats in congress. He was always an idiot, who thought that by undermining our president, he would earn the loyalty of leftist liberals and the press (the same). When would be ever learn? May be in 16 years someone else will get it.
Romney for 2012 !
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I didn’t get a date for when Joe Biden stated Obama would be tested, but, it is apparent that Hamas start celebrating last night shooting off 35 missiles at Israel. But, this is on Bush’s watch so Obama gets a free ride for the time being.
The German market actually went down instead of up like Asia on the announcement as they see the open trade being stopped by the American Unions under Obama.
Since Obama is on record about the cap and trade on coal burning electrical plants to be bankruptied I wonder where the people of Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Iowa, New York are going to get their electricity from in the future or how he is going to replace these 1 million plus jobs lost. Solar or wind energy will take 10 years to get up for these people. Going to be some hurting folks as the higher electrical bills start hitting before the companies close down. Maybe a new stimilus pacakge for these people?
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I am sorry if I can not quite yet bring myself to romanticize blacks. Or desire a sexual thing. You see, this is what the election was about. And you thought it was about the economy or the war? Bush?
(pausing here to collect myself)
I think Obamba’s election says it all. …about my neighbors . not Emanuel, Moses and Abrahamn. (hee hee)
From an angle you might not have ever heard or vehemently disagree and dispise:
First, it’s true-conservatives are the ones who are going to be changing here…for the better. I mean, one thing is we must, first, just completely stop trying to talk with the Obamba-On-High penis adorers. I have been saying we got to circle the wagons! It is our time and energy being wasted to think we can persuade the unpersuable! Although count on the media doing what it can to snuff out any dirty laundry and I do mean dirty laundry and you will note his high polling numbers (the current “president elect”). After all, he is the One no? When they get the herpes, etc., we shall not feel guilt, nonetheless.
May His People heartily revel now in/with/by their long awaited Annointed. Party. Party. Party. Hmm. Still seems like there are still close to 60,000,000 who need to be taken to the camps. (I perfer to be taken just to some interment or reservation). I have been preparing for it for years. This land I have to walk on is going to be ruled by ….no…I won’t say it….I vowed I would not allow myself to become full of bitterness as the Bush haters clearly displayed what good people are about. (serious considering naming a waste treatment plant for W. etc.).
I could go on. But I basically am feeling the same today as I did yesterday and a day from last year. I have shut the cable off. I will turn off radio and try blocking the news rags from catching my sight. Thankfully I have been given ample time to prepare for the entertainment I am about to witness. Wow, we finally have a real uniter!! lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololo
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So many fools and so little time. But hey, it’s been fun LC. The responses to your post are amusing. If they taught history, most would not be posting with such silly things.
As we both know, with Tyranny of the Majority comes the death of a Republic. Pure democracy does not work because of people and politicians who place self interest before that of the nation.
It was a good run, a bit ragged at the end, but good none-the-less. Bitter? No, sad. When they can’t live off mommies credit card or Uncle Sam’s checks what will they do, because there will not be any jobs.
Just remember the immortal words of Hank Jr. We can skin a buck and we run a trot line.
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In truth, I am not surprised by the outcome of this election. Saddened, but not surprised.
I guess my biggest question will be, where are all the happy faces going to go when the light of truth shines on the “breaks over, back on your heads” sign? My guess is most will not be able to read it for lack of education.
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People are going to be so horribly disappointed if they truly believed the promises made.
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Those who have to ask “explain how Obama is a Marxist” are those ill-educated lemmings taking us over a cliff. The kind of people who vote for their own destruction and then run around saying ‘But I didn’t know!’. They don’t know and they don’t care to know. Maybe McCain should take any leftover money and send these people copies of The Communist Manifesto. There are no “pictures”, but it’s a short read. Barry quoted its philosophy verbatim through much of his campaign.
Wasn’t it nice to see flags with the hammer & sickle outside the White House last night as Barry’s supporters partied till dawn? Yeah…nice.
And to CB and his ilk–you need to read up on interventionist socialism, which likes to disguise itself as capitalism or at least a “free market”. I know, I know–America is horrible and that’s why so many of us are making boats out of Chevys and trying desperately to get into Britain or France.
We already have a safety net for the poor–it’s called charity, and Americans are the most generous people on the face of the earth. We don’t need the government to take our money from us by force–we give it freely, even when times are tough for us.
Okay, fellow Americans, it’s time to pony up instead of laying here bleeding. Every single person who sees what Obama is can do things in their personal lives to combat this crap. Dust yourself off and get ready. It will be distatsteful but necessary–don’t produce, don’t buy, and get in line for every “free” progam you can to ensure his programs won’t work.
“Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride”.
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I guess what I’m missing in these comments is the nurturing, healing, oneness that Obama has asked his followers to dispense to the “other side”. I wonder is this makes for a good start or a more of the same. It feels a bit like, “we got you down and we’re gonna kick you.”
I’d suggest that how the winners win will dictate the next contest’s tone, and to that I’d add, “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.”
What I can say from experience is simply that the only easy day was yesterday. See ya at the polls in 2010.
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Daneen, glad to see you prove my points…
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Great article and I believe we can win our country back.. I know they are taking names but we can take names also. The trolls on here need to go back to KOS because when they get what they voted for I for one will not be their to lift them out of their misery. It is sad that they can not see what they have done but they will feel it.
By the way he is not the AntiChrist, but could well be the False Prophet.
The map at least showed us where the conservatives are and I hope we can all join together and take this country back to a moral, value based, fiscally conservative country.
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Thanks, Shannon.
I don’t understand the trolls. I’ve had to start deleting comments because some are so absolutely hate-filled and the language is obscene. If they don’t like it they should try to act like adults.
In NY we at least had the state senate in the hands of the GOP, but that is no more. Taxes here are unbelievable and will now probably get worse.
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“We can take our country back”
Um, not with the current political coalition of the GOP. Your current demographic base is in the descendency, and the demographic shifts just in the next couple of years will overwhelm the GOP.
Time to get a new base. Hint: blacks will always be 95 percent Dem, hispanics will be 75 percent, and “other” is both permanently Dem and very small.
Now where to forge that new base ….
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CB, I have visited the UK, Germany and France frequently. And wonder why anyone would accept a standard of living, and Government intervention, at that level. It’s certainly not what I want for my kids. I’m pointing out that those systems that like to continue to describe themselves in ‘democratic’ terms and deny that they are socialist in nature and have sacrified personal liberty–and responsibility–by trying out that interventionist socialism have, most certainly, declined. Walk the streets and talk to people your same age and compare standards of living…my lifestyle is inconceivable to them, and I’m in no way “rich”. I, at least, have a JOB. Further, I still have enough individualism and pride to state that I don’t WANT my neighbor to be robbed to make my life “easier”. It goes against my priniciples.
That “safety net society” was never what America was about and I don’t ever WANT it to be about that. And that’s because I have confidence in myself, and my abilities to handle whatever life dishes out–I am not one of those people walking around in a state of fear, assuming that I will fail, that we will lose the war, that I’ll be disliked for my values, that I should join a union to keep a job, that I can’t make my way in the world without help, without the reassurances of someone else, expecting the worst. I’ve encountered some pretty horrendous challenges and found that I can handle whatever; it’s not easy, but I can. On my own.
And because I do not FEAR, because it is not my natural state of being, I voted McCain.
No, I reject the idea of “safety for liberty” (and self-reliance).
But I hope you enjoy France. Hint: stock up at the grocery during the limited time it’s open or you’ll starve. See, to operate normal restaurant/store hours they would have to work more. And pay people. But they ‘have it all figured out’…..
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Doreen, you continue to prove my points.
And maybe you should listen to the man you voted for: his concession speach was truly remarkable…
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I apologize for the name change (too early in the morning) – I meant Daneen, of course.
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cb, you and I need coffee together, because this could go long….you don’t understand: we do not want to be Scandinavian or European. It’s why we left home and stayed gone. And we’re not a democracy, either–we’re a Constitutional Republic and that is, in fact, different. At heart? We loathe the socialism, no matter how you cloak it or what you call it. It is what it is, and still I reject it. We did not become the most successful nation on earth based on those ideals–why would we abandon ours in favor of those that STILL drive their citizens to our shores? Capitalism and its associated government is not easy: you have to want it and you have to work hard and earn it. It’s not for everyone. Not everyone can take that requirement to be self-reliant. That’s okay. That’s what the rest of the world is for.
I understand that if you believe, in your heart, that it’s a moral system there is nothing I can do to change your mind. Ditto to me. For now, at least, we still have the right to disagree. I’m just curious, and maybe you already noted it above somewhere, as to where are you living right now.
Go get that coffee! And let’s keep it decent for the blog’s sake, I do appreciate that. “Doreen”
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Daneen
– coffee right beside me (I drink too much of that stuff).
I have to admit: if the tone of this blog and the comments had been like your last post, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It’s not about changing anybody’s mind on a system – all the conservative blogs I stumbled onto acted as though the world was at end – that just prompted response… (this one was purely by chance, not because it was better or worse than any of the others).
I live in Germany – and as I have friends and family who suffered under REAL socialism and fought against it (I was lucky enough to grow up in the West), I find your intimation that I live in a socialistic country somewhat offensive (some of them are now American, by the way). We had a socialistic wall right in the middle of our country – how can I take anybody seriously who calls a country west of the wall socialistic or even Marxist? (My father had to study Marxism in school – he thoroughly hates it – but he actually knows what he is talking about…)
“The most successful nation on earth” is clearly a matter of debate – I myself lived in the US for four years (as child and adult), I have lots of American friends and colleagues, and I still have to disagre – I prefer living here. By what measure the most successful? Pure GNP? Ok (but not for long, China only needs a few years to trump everybody). GNP per capita? US is number six, five socialistic countries are ahead of you
, with Luxembourg and Norway far ahead. Education? Well… Freedom? I don’t see you having more freedom than myself.
And there we get to the heart of the matter: freedom. I wholeheartedly agree with self-reliance and personal responsibility, but I also realize we live in a society, i.e. group of people. There is an obvious limitation to any freedom in the absolute: and that is the freedom of my neighbor. We HAVE to make rules that enable us to live together. Freedom in any western society is ALWAYS within a given set of rules and boundaries. Humans are not rational enough – especially in large groups – to handle the rules on a one-on-one basic, which is why we invented democracy and government. (Not to quibble on terms, but a constitutional republic is in fact a democracy, just as a DIRECT democracy is a democracy. There are quite few democracies left that are NOT constitutional republics – direct just doesn’t work out very well when the size gets too large. All of us elect representatives, have a separation of power – the details differ, but principles don’t really.)
Any individual who feels that the rules and boundaries themselves are already a restriction of freedom has a problem: it should be obvious that nobody has the freedom to kill his neighbor or burn his house down. So I guess (I hope) that we agree that boundaries are necessary. In a free society, everybody has the right to act within those rules. (That’s where socialism is different – everybody has to act according to a more or less arbitrarily changing plan or orders, not on a set of rules.)
Now comes the tricky part – free markets. I have to live, so I have the freedom to work and make money. That includes the freedom to build a factory, right? Assume we are neighbors on a lakeshore, and I build a factory there and start polluting the lake. The value of your property falls to zero, and it smells bad. Does my freedom include that? I would guess not. Will the market itself take care of it, if there is no rule that I may not pollute your lake? No, it can’t, because the pollution is not part of the price – markets can only regulate where there is price that factors all that stuff in.
The pollution is what you call an “external effect”. The beauty of free markets is that they are efficient. External effects prevent that efficiency. The production of my goods has costs that are not included in the price of the good. But why should I care – they are your costs, not mine! As self-reliant as you may be, you have a problem that is not of your own making and that you can do nothing about.
If there were only the two of us we could fight it out. But we live in a society, you can’t fight or kill me, so in the unregulated market I have envisioned you lose. You not only lose, the market is inefficient. We need regulation.
Making a rule to internalize the effect (i.e. cause me to install filters, so that the cost become part of the price) is well within free market “dogma”. It raises my cost, but it lowers yours. Regulating our market makes it more efficient – the price reflects the cost. And it becomes obvious that freedom means a lot more that just being allowed to do what I want – it means that the next man does NOT HAVE TO put up with everything I want. (The cost for me will force me to raise the price, of course. Maybe that means that I will go out of business. Bad for me? Sure – but the actual correct free market result.)
But: external effects are not always that obvious. What if the stuff I was putting into the lake takes 10 years to kill your property? What if I am the only one on the lake, but the pollution takes the livelyhood of a town 20 miles away? What if the lake is on the border to another country? Is my freedom more important that that of a man in another nation? (Lots of US conservatives seem to think yes).
It gets even more complicated. Take a bunch of companies that in a run of free market decisions got wealthy. Then, in another run of bad decisions, they go broke. Self-reliance and responsibility, right? One problem here – a market economy is a web, the fall of one company often affects the economy, stock prices etc etc. YOUR 401k takes a hit because some banks, of which you don’t even OWN stocks made bad decisions. YOUR freedom is affected – you suddenly have to put up with something you had nothing to do with and no means to prevent. Success or failure suddenly becomes a matter of simple luck.
Ok, maybe that’s a price we have to pay for free markets. Let’s dramaticize: you work in an industry that gets by, in an area that relies on that industry. The banks go broke, your employer stops receiving credit. He goes broke, your whole area looses its livelyhood. Your neighbors start drinking… you get the picture. The question is: at what point do external effects grow so large that the group of people that makes up society says we need a rule for that case? And what happens when we actually forgot to make a rule? Like now, with the credit crunch?
You can see where I am going? But it gets better: in classical theory, the credit crunch can’t even happen! Because the basis of all discussions about free market is the assumption that the market participant act RATIONALLY. Which, being human, they seldom do, but in the normal run of things the irrationality of decisions just cancels out and we get a pretty good “free market” result anyway. Only in this case, we didn’t. Fear rules the day, and distrust. Our basic assumption on the working of free markets is no longer valid – banks stop lending to each other, which isn’t rational, because the real economy is fairly sound. And some stupid decisions of some bankers turn into a real economic crisis.
If you want to call it socialism, be my guest – we are at a point where even regulation isn’t enough, because you have real market failure – irrational decisions producing random, inefficient results. It becomes self-fulfilling prophecy mode. Self-reliance doesn’t help one little bit – you have to reestablish trust. You have no way around intervention. (I won’t go into Keynes here – no, he was no Marxist, he developed his theory expressly AGAINST Marxisms’ answers to crises – his policy recommendations were adopted by Republican governments, too.)
So, as hard as it may be to accept, rules and regulations (what the German neo-classical school of economists called ORDO, order) are necessary for an efficient free market economy. And in some cases (when free market is incapable of producing efficient results because the assumptions have broken down), even intervention is the actual free market answer.
Long treatise, I am sorry. You see why I say most free market proponents don’t understand what free market means? If you are the one with the factory, of course you prefer the deregulated version, the one where external effects are not in the price, where the price is wrong and the market is inefficient. Is this moral? Well, it is understandable, but is still based on greed and not on a real understanding of real free market principles.
If you are not asleep yet (and you can’t be, you have coffee, too
), you will have caught a little fact: success or failure in our free market society, imperfect as it is, because it is simply impossible to get rid of all externalities, is to a non-negligible percentage not a matter of skill, or self-reliance, but of pure chance. Chance of birth, of inborn talents, of being on the road at the wrong time when a drunk driver hits you, or of living in the wrong area when wall street crashes or of playing your best basketball ever when the scout for a big college comes along. For every story of a person who made it with skill and hard work, there are 9 stories of people who put in the same amount of skill and hard work, but didn’t have the luck. (Again, I won’t quibble on the numbers, but both are bigger than zero.) THAT is why a societal safety net is free market conform and has nothing to do with socialism. By eliminating luck from the system to some degree it produces more efficient results in sum. (Charity is nice, but actually a suboptimal solution, because it is nothing individuals can plan on – foreseeability being one of the prerequisites for free market efficiency.)
By the way, would you say that Margaret Thatcher was a socialist? She was actually a big fan of F.A.v.Hayek, the guy I pointed to in a previous post. (The one who said that a safety net is essential for a free society? “The constitution of liberty) One of Ronald Reagan’s economic advisors (another of your socialist presidents
), Milton Friedman, proposed my favority safety net system, the negative income tax (look it up on wikipedia), which has the least inefficiency. Pretty impossible to implement because of the entrenched tax systems all countries have.
Now my other point: ideological blindness. If you want freedom and free markets, all of the above is simple logic following from the tenets of free markets. We can disagree on the exact way to go, but the principles are clear – and Obama and McCain are both well within the principles. You yourself may be free of fear, but most of your fellow conservatives are not – they fear the future and change, they fear otherness, they fear the black man in the white house (why on earth would any sane person care whether he is a muslim or not?), they fear a world that is not black and white but shades of gray. When you talk about socialist interventionism, ignoring that there is a lot in the middle that is very conform with a free society and that actually WORKS, that doesn’t strike me as not being fearful. And that is exactly why large parts of the world disliked Mr. Bush. (Btw, don’t mistake that with disliking America – America is a bunch of people, you like some, you dislike some – of the Mr. Bush really stupid phrases was “you are either for us or against us…”)
Much too long, if you find any typos you can keep them, to tired to read everything again…
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CB-Here in America we have regulations on everything. In my state there are further state, county and local regulations on everything (as well as taxes). We have safety nets like unemployment, social security, SSDI, medicare, medicaid, SCHIP, WIC, food stamps, HEAP and other welfare programs. How much more do you think we need? We can’t pay for what we have now!
How are my children going to pay for this? If the US economy goes to waste what will happen to the rest of the world?
I believe you are probably a decent, well intentioned human being, but we are already socialist enough over here. Those of us on the right don’t at all appreciate politicians who make promises they can only keep by intruding even further on our rights and into our lives.
And no coffee for me, Diet Coke all the way:-)
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I give up – calling the political opponent who was elected by 52% of your countrymen a Marxist and the Anti-Christ is “we don’t appreciate …”? Come on!
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CB – I don’t believe I have called him the anti-Christ. As far as Marxist – it was he who said he sought out Marxist professors. It was he who had a close relationship with Frank Marshall Davis. It is he who says he wants to ‘spread the wealth’ around and it is he who plays the whole class warfare game.
And I’m glad, truly, that you like life in Germany. I am curious as to why it matters to you whether America becomes more socialist.
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You said “those of us on the right”, and of lot of you used the term Antichrist, just google all the blogs. As for Marxist – all of those things make don’t him Marxist, they make him open-minded. By calling him a Marxist you are calling your own candidate a liar, you know. And you are calling ME a liar – “spreading the wealth” is at the foundation of our (Germany’s) economic system and has nothing to do with Marxism. (It is called “Soziale Marktwirtschaft”, social market economics – not everything with the word “social” in it is socialist or Marxist, by the way.)
But hey – if you have weak arguments, use strong language – that’s the only case you need it.
As to why I care: I happen to know and like a lot of Americans (many more than I don’t like). America matters. Ideological blindness is not good for America, and so it is not good for the world.
Cheers
cb
P.S. Your children already have to pay for your last president, who was blind enough to heap up huge deficits when the economy was good. Besides that: your economy IS at waste due to a brand of capitalism that would have made Adam Smith turn in his grave, and which pulled the rest of the world down with it. That is why “conservative” lost – why conserve an obviously wrong recipe?
Btw, for what it is worth: I think McCain would also have made a good president – the tally of pros and cons just went slightly against him. And HE GRACIOUSLY conceded…
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My friends I talk from a view point which I came to understand while actively participating in elections in India time and again.
I did see how the One party rule split in two and as time went by we had a whole bunch of parties spawned to the extent today none of the old horses can ever stand up and say we will regain what we have lost.
A Republican party replica came into existence sometime back in India with a very conservative message, apparent ideas of strict discipline and slogans of intolerance.to everything which, existed around them that, was not inline with their ideals and policies.
Well it enjoyed its hey days and gradually we saw a shift in the electorate with more educated people stepping out resulting in neutralizing and reorganizing the electorate which by then had heard enough of the intolerance messages, ideas and also seen the ill effects of it on the overall populace.
After reading all the messages my conclusion is We call him(Obama) whatever we want but remember the truths he is the President.
The Republican base which was existing was clean but lately meaning 8 years ago was repainted by falsity of purpose of some individuals I mean the Rove’s, hannity’s and Limbaugh’s, Cheney’s, lately the Palin’s and the Bush’s this very base is suddenly ravaged by a flood of awakening by the Americans for the Americans.
If a self introspection is done by these very guys
1. We all will realize that do whatever but do not show to the people that those under our umbrella are above the law this is something which makes things scandalous.
2. Do not tell a lie in the name of truth by saying we are right always someone somewhere is looking with a magnifying glass and the truth will spill out.
3. The most arrogant and insane policy is anybody who does not marry our ideals then his/her patriotism is questionable.
4. This is not Monarchy this is democracy the age of internet when transparency is demanded hiding anything in this age means being hideous which is why many like minded people become unfaithful.
All of this happened in the last 8 years and we all are seeing the results.
In a few years the Democratic party will also face the same fate and then the Republicans will emerge but in case they repeat these pranks each time they fall it will corrode a slice of their support base which is apparent this time.
Let the pundits say whatever that it is the eonomic fallout or whatever but the truth is a slice of the base is corroded and sliced which will never again look at the Republicans.
A day will dawn upon the Republicans where no one will want to listen to them and the Bob Barr’s and Ron Paul’s will have to be traded to stand up not only that the GOP will become a non-entity it will need crutches to stand up.
The Rove’s, the Hannity’s, Cheney’s, Bush’s, Palin’s and the Limbaugh’s are not supporters but opportunists who are making their game filling their coffers and making ways for their own recognition and in short are loudly saying we are indispensable use us all, your doom is well defined.
This is what I understand and it is not a prophecy it is a truth.
If Republicans need to regain the Reagan fame they need to be in the center embracing all faiths all cultures the country is changing or else a few can shout desperately no one will hear. We saw the Palin’s the crowd drawing etc but to no avail thing’s are apparent you can’t say this is white when it is black in reality no one is blind for ever. You can fool once or twice not always and note you made a fool of this man this women twice this means these very people will hereafter be the ones who not only oppose you but support opposition against you.
Remember India has a bigger population, electorate is more illiterate, the elections are much stricter then what we see here and the population is more diverse with 46 languages but elections are conducted fairly and time to time it proves as a model to the rest of the world.
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cb and vj – we’ll never see eye to eye. If you fail to understand the facts about the economic crisis or that the reason republicans lose is that they aren’t being conservative enough I can’t waste my time.
But don’t call ME intollerant. This is my site, I created it, I pay the hosting fees. If I were so intollerant I could delete your comments with a swift click of my mouse.
And about intollerance – Gay marriage was voted down in California. A very liberal state. Polls show that black voters overwhelmingly voted down the right for gays to marry in California. So who is intollerant?
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Lonely Conservative Said,
I appreciate you allowing the healthy discussion which is why I say you are the lonely conservative indeed!.
My friend I am niether a Democrat nor a Republican I am just a neutral Overseer who is narrating his understanding without hurting either of the two parties and their patrons. I am just looking at two groups of humans whose thinking is a bit divergent that is it. Go out to your fun spots or Go out to the places where they run the Government from, you will find all of them together. The people outside become more passionate and argue, debate and also quarrel at times where as these very guys who parted them as D’s and R’s leave the bickerings once they are elected. Deny if this false. Politics is their profession and the skill set is to create support on whatever be the pretext and result is they continue to state in the houses of governence. It is as simple as that.
What I had to say I said in my terms with examples of a country I came from.
I am an optimist and do think crests and troughs do exist in a persons life who might have just a few thousands to shuffle but the same applies to a bigger entity like this nation which is going through a downtime in terms of economy. This will change for better let us watch and monitor every Quarter starting from today. THANKS
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Vijai, well put.
LC, I never said intolerant, I said ideologically blind. As a liberty-minded person (call it whatever you want), I am constantly aware that my world view might not be correct. Not because my logic is faulty (it is always easy to show errors in logic), but because of my assumptions. It is IMPOSSIBLE for any person to be certain whether his/her assumptions are true or false, that’s why they are assumptions. I can believe in them, but I can’t KNOW them to be true. Neither can you.
It is not easy to go through life knowing that your basic philosophical assumptions are unprovable and so never certain – but in the end, THAT is the essence of strength and self-reliance. Are you prepared to admit you that your assumptions are uncertain?
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My assumptions are based on what I saw and not on hearsay or for that matter my so called intellect. Whatever you call that as.
I saw a similar thing amongst an electorate in a far of land.
The electorate which I am referring to as is far more passionate killing rioting and being abusive is childs play for the electorate which I am refering to. Economy of this far of land has a clear cut divide of have and have nots. In this electorate I have seen how parties come and go and get divided into smaller bits and pieces. The civility of the electorate I am refering to is just nor guaranteed.
I saw what I explained in by first posting of how things change and how someone is a winner this season with his election office buzzing with activity and how the next season on the election eve the same candidates office has a deserted look as this very guy is the loser this time.
As said by the winners the policies will come out anytime soon we will compare them
1. The soothing and solacing hand of hope will be laid on those suffering job losses. Will this happen? Let us see.
2. The intellect of the economists and the financial bigwigs hired will seep in to tweak the failing industry and banks. Will this happen? let us see.
3. The wars ordered by the existing administration without blinking will need to be stopped and the men women of this country who have been put in the harms way need a respite, Will this happen? Let us see.
4. The healthcare which many in this country yearn for well is it going to made available? Let us see.
5. The deteriorating educational standards which make me laugh when the kids bring the homework will undergo a change. It was said will it happen? Let us see.
Finally if all of this falls in place then we have to rethink who is capable to govern in the truw sense with the two entities(parties) in mind.
Thereafter whoever takes the baton should be competitive enough to drive it further.
and prove that I can do a better job then my predecessor.
You and most of us do agree without blinking an eye that we saw how not to run a government in the last 8 years. Let us all hope for the best as we are a part of whatever happens good or bad unmindful of our affiliations.
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You are too stupid to live.
Just a couple of examples of the compolete wrongness of what you have written:
1. That “Civilian National Security Force” that you’re so worried about? The people it’s going to “target” are sick people in hospitals, kids in school, and others who need help. Obama used the phrase “civilian national security force” to describe the volunteer groups his administration will promote, because he thinks that all of us working together to help each other — you know, providing food for the hungry, comforting the sick, sheltering the homeless, all that “whatever you do for the least of these you do for me” stuff — is the best way for our nation to become stronger and more . . . . wait for it . . . . SECURE.
If you don’t believe me, here’s the link so you can go watch the whole speech where he first used the “civilian national security force” language. Watch this instead of that shortened clip that made the rounds of the wingnut viral e-mails, and you’ll see it for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw It’s about 26 minutes long, which I know is way beyond your usual attention span, but give it a try any way. You’ll be able to write so much better if you actually have a clue what you’re talking about.
2. I really had to laugh at this paragraph:
“Let’s hope that those of us who don’t want to be wards of the state will teach our children that with freedom comes responsibility. We are just as free to fail as we are to succeed. When we make mistakes we pay for those mistakes and we learn from them.”
Like AIG? General Motors? They are free to succeed, but as soon as it looks like they’re going to fail, they demand billions of dollars of taxpayer money. Must be rough. And when that taxpayer money comes through, those execs go ahead and pay themselves the multi-million dollar bonuses they believe they are entitled to because of what a bang-up job they did running their companies [into the ground].
3. What Joe Biden was saying was that whoever gets elected is going to be tested, because that’s what our enemies do to new presidents. He wasn’t talking exclusively about Obama. He said if Obama gets elected, he’ll be tested. He later said if McCain gets elected, he’ll be tested too. Nowhere, at any time, did he say that Obama would fail.
And he won’t fail . This time, those who hate hope and mock hope are the ones who will be diappointed. Because this time, our nation finally had the good sense to elect someone with intelligence, integrity, and judgment to lead us, instead of worrying about who they’d rather have a beer with.
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Oh Angelique. I hope you grow up some day. “You are too stupid to live.” That is not the way to sway someone over to your side. Especially as your opening statement. And I can definitely say I would much rather have a beer with Barack Obama than I would with you.
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Will some explain??
Does Conservatism means HATE.
Does Conservatism means WAR
Does this word means RACISM
Isn’t the world looking much better then the last 8 years of rule which was secretive and one person who was not knowing where he was headed was running a government and his deputy who was arrogant, hot headed and was thinking himself to be above every one almost considering himself GOD?
Isn’t it true that when a New government takes over it has to clean up the litter left behind by its predecessor?
In case the predecessor was sooo trashy to have left a huge mess the current one needs time to clean the mess?
Isn’t it true that we had two funny guys who where stirring a PANDORA’s box all round the world thinking themselves to be saviors and Messiahs of DEMOCRAZY.
Did we ever think that that these two guys and their cronies where trying desperately to redefine DEMOCRACY as DEMOCRAZY by doing whatever hey felt comfortable with?
Do we need to talk about the present guy while he is still cleaning the mess these two sneaky, war mongers, opportunists, racists left behind?
Croacheny was the name of one of the guys because the RAID of the voters has still not stunned him he is again crawling on his back.
He needs to be swatted and made to go in a crevice and then RAIDed so that he doesn’t come into the lives of Americans again.
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